Feb 6, 2014

Posted by in Community | 56 Comments

Does Bilbo have the Arkenstone?

If Bilbo has the Arkenstone why doesn’t he give Thorin a straight answer, toward the end of The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug? That’s the question being debated currently in this thread on Quora.

We also like the creative debate on another Hobbit-related question there: What would you do if you were a giant intelligent fire breathing flying dragon like Smaug?

Follow the links to read more and join the discussions on these, and other burning questions regarding The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug and The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey.

  1. I read the book, and Bilbo has to have the Arkenstone! When I went to the movie for the second time with my dad, we saw there is one moment where Smaug hits a pit of gold with his claw or tail and then both Arkenstone and Bilbo are out of sight for a short while. That is the only moment when Bilbo could have caught the Arkenstone.

    • That is very true! after the movie I went home and read the book in to days and I must of cried for 2 hours about fili and kili and thorin dying at the end they better not make them die in the movie!

      • If Fili, Kili, and Thorin don’t die it’ll pretty much ruin the most dramatic moment and heart warming scenes in the movie. I just hope that Peter and the rest get it right, and I’m sure they will!

        • Fili and Kili will die. Why else do you think the screenwriters have invested so much energy into developing a relationship between Taurial and Kili? They did that to add emotional weight to his character.

          • I don’t think Fili and Kili will die in the movie since they are still in Lake-town…

          • Even though they are left in lake town, Smaug is obviously flying back there to destroy lake town, in which he fails and there are battles that take place where Fili and Kili die.

          • As I can recall from the book even though Smaug is overthrown in the end it is not without a whole lot of carnage and destruction being left in his wake as Lake Town is destroyed in a firey blaze, otherwise, why else would Peter Jackson invest so much time and effort into this beastly fire breathing serpent only for him to be killed off with out lake Town being destroyed and a large number of casualties being left in his wake?

          • How does Thorin, Fili, and Kili die? Does anyone else die? What about Thranduil? Does he really fight WITH the elves? I can see him fighting them, but not with them. Is it true Legolas isn’t supposed to be in the Hobbit?

          • painjoiker says:

            They are slain in battle. Fili and Kili dies defending the dying Thorin. No one else important dies. Do you mean dwarves? Thranduil fights with the Dwarves, Elves and Men against the orcs. Legolas is not mentioned in the Hobbit.

          • Fili and Kili wont die they’re in Laketown?? well that’s got no relevance, they’re in more danger at Laketown where smaug is heading than if they were at Erebor? not that they do get killed by smaug anyway but hey ho

      • I think for the reality and dramatic purposes it is one of the best things Tolkien could have done at that point. It is a really tragic turn in the book and I hope so too in the movie.
        And even If Peter Jackson would let them live, it would be very strange to not mention them in Lord of the rings.

        • I agreed with the points you are making. Fili ,Kili and Thorin should die! If not, why wouldn’t Peter mention them in the lord of the ring? What about Gimili and Araghorn?

    • No its not. The arkensone is seen on screen after those multiple moments.
      The last time the arkenstone is on screen is when smaug breathes fire towards bilbo, and he puts on the ring and runs to the side. Its probably then he grabs the arkenstone, since its the last time its seen on screen.

  2. I do think he does, (since it says in the book) they’ll probably reveal he has it early in the 3rd movie.

  3. The reason he doesn’t give Thorin the arkenstone is because of what smaug said about the dwarves just using him to get it and the don’t value Bilbo at all.

    • I agree!

    • I think he does have the Arkenstone, but doesn’t give it to Thorin to protect him from himself. Considering what Bilbo heard in Rivendell and from Smaug regarding that it will drive Thorin mad.

      • Yer I agree that’s what I ment as we’ll.

        • Joseph G. Mattackal says:

          I think it is because bilbo does not want thorin to suffer like smaug says, as he considers thorin his friend. I am stating backed by the movie not the book
          In the book he keeps it because he considers it his 1/14 profit as agreed in the contract.

          • I agree with you. But I also think that the things Smaug says in the movie give Bilbo a double motive. One, Smaug tells him that Thorin will go mad if he DOES get the Arkenstone. Second, Smaug suggests clearly that Bilbo gets cheated by the dwarves, that he is only their tool. He doesn’t say anything about a “reward” clearly. But come to think of it, after Smaug suggests that Bilbo is being used by the dwarves, he might well come to think secretly that he better make sure of his share.

          • PLUS: The script makes it very clear (contrary to the book!!!) that the ring already has a negative effect on Bilbo. That may be a third motivation – infection with greed.

            Oh how I love these movies. They may not be perfect but they make you think so much.

        • I believe that Bilbo takes the arkenstone and hides it from Thorin because he uses it as a bargaining tool between Lake town and the dwarves, I think that is what happened in the book but I’m not sure because its been a while since I read it.

      • Bilbo is being a good friend, and he doesn’t want to see his friend be driven mad by greed. and He also doesn’t want to lose Thorin as a friend because of what he saw when they entered the mountain. But i wish Thorin was able to control himself better than his father and Grandfather. Well, we’ll soon see.

  4. joyce tullock says:

    Of course he has the Arkenstone.

  5. I reckon he does have it. Can’t wait for the 3rd film!

  6. He should have the Arkenstone because he did in the book.I hope Peter doesn’t change up the third film even though he has shown that he can change it up.I hope that the next movie will be fantastic!!!

  7. SMAUGSFITNESSTRAINER says:

    First of he does have the arkenstone plain and simple and if i was Smaug id go find myself a lady dragon ;) and make dragon babies. But i most definetly can not wait for the final movie! the 2nd movie was nothing short of a masterpiece.

  8. He might not have it, you know. It’s vital for the plot, if they’re following the book, but there’s now a big old pile of treasure with no dragon sitting on it. It’s like the perfect moment to snag a piece of it. I reckon he has it, though.

  9. schocoman says:

    I think this is a rather stupid question for a discussion in the firt place because if the film does not totally deviate from the book he has the Arkenstone. Some do not seem to have read the book otherwise they would not think this worth a discussion. Of course Bilbo keeps it to himself, this is one of the major aspects of the last movie, and in the latter half of book, that Bilbo has sth. to make Thorin change his mind and behaviour (e.g. rewarding the Lake People, the coure of the battle …) which will largely constitute the outcome of the rest of the story.

  10. There’s no possible way Bilbo doesn’t have the Arkenstone,and knowing the way PJ makes his movies, he’s not going to have a scene where they search the entire treasure room. I hope that PJ sticks to the source material and has Bilbo give the Arkenstone to Bard and Thandruil. But if the book is followed, then Smaug will die within the first 15-30 minutes of There and Back Again. And if Fili, Kili,and Thorin die, then Tauriel will be distraught. And you can’t just leave that kind of character, so they’ll probably going to have her die in the Battle of Five Armies. Honestly, I don’t know what to think of the final Hobbit movie.

    • They’ll probably show Bilbo has the arkenstone after Smaug dies and will probably have a scene where he’s trying to decide what to do with it. As for Thorin, Fili and Kili dying, of course Tauriel will be devastated, and if she dies Legolas will probably be devastated as well. But i suppose we’ll just have to wait and see what Peter brings us. and I’m sure i won’t be disappointed. :)

    • Joseph G. Mattackal says:

      Tauriel will probably die fighting side by side with kili because that will probably have people crying if I know PJ properly.

      • Considering that in the book, Fili, Kili, and Thorin all die during the Battle of the Five Armies, it might be a bit of overkill (pun intended) to kill off Tauriel in that battle as well. Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a feeling they’ll exit her character from any potential mentioning that may have happened in the LOTR movies by having her stay in Mirkwood to see through to its cleansing of evil after the events of “There and Back Again.”

        • I don’t think PJ will let Tauriel live, so would just be to important and mighty not to mention her in the LOTR. That’s is quite the problem with newly invented characters, there ending must be conclusive and clear to see. And therefore I think Tauriel dies with Fili and Kili together. It’s sad, yes, and maybe overkill, but I think it really shows the horrors of war

          • I dont want Tauriel to die just because of stupid emotional love to that Dwarf KIli. Legolas would be much better choice for her. This is showing us how blind love is making you weak and even brings death like in Tauriel example. She could be so happy with Legolas — and have much brighter future than with greedy dwarves !

      • I don’t think Tauriel needs to die because of LOTR. Tauriel gives as a background to the Legolas we meet in LOTR. She may be creating a sort of “He has nothing to loose therefore he goes on an adventure” – background. BUT they can’t be together anyway, can they? Firstly, Thranduil doesn’t approve. And secondly, Legolas just witnessed her falling in love with another guy (and a dwarf to boot!).Wether she’s dead or not I think Legolas has enough motivation to join the company of the ring.

  11. i read the book and i say yes because if you see bilbo when thori ask him you will understant

  12. HOBBIT 3!!!!!!!!!!! :D !!!!

  13. There was a moment after Smaug attempted to toast Bilbo by breathing fire at him, but Bilbo put on the ring and escaped. While Bilbo is running away from Smaug, we can track his movement by following the trail of gold coins that fall from his possession. My guess is that in this moment, Bilbo was fidgeting with the Arkenstone trying to pocket it as he ran away from Smaug.

  14. In this point in the story (or at least as best as they line up) Bilbo does NOT have the Arkenstone. In the book Bilbo makes 3 trips down to Smaug and does not receive the Arkenstone until the third trip. I think he will pick it up when the dwarves and him renter and fortify the gate in preparation for Smaug’s return. Personally I really don’t know if he is suppose to have it or not.

  15. i have the arkenstone and i ll give to my beloved thorin when we ll meet in the skyes!!!i still cannot accept that he must die.in the book was easyer,but looking at him….no!…

  16. I think bilbo did get the arkinstone in desolation of smaug. If I remember right it goes on to bilbo falling with the arkinstone and then they stop and bilbos next to it, then finally it goes back onto smaug. After that point in the film we don’t see or hear of the arkinstone anymore. I think peter Jackson is hinting that bilbo has got it.
    I fell that we will see it again at the begining of there and back again when bilbo obviously goes and…….well all of us that have read the book know the amazing plot twist that awaits us in there and back again.

  17. I think bilbo did get the arkinstone in desolation of smaug. If I remember right it goes on to bilbo falling with the arkinstone and then they stop and bilbos next to it, then finally it goes back onto smaug. After that point in the film we don’t see or hear of the arkinstone anymore. I think peter Jackson is hinting that bilbo has got it.
    I fell that we will see it again at the begining of there and back again when bilbo obviously goes and…….well all of us that have read the book know the amazing plot twist that awaits us in there and back again.

  18. Read the book peeps :) YEP… Thorin, Fili and Kili die..sad but TRUE :( Tauriel is a NEW character but I am guessing SHE dies because she’s NOT in the LOR trilogy of movies. YEP…Bilbo HAS possession of the ARKENSTONE… Again..read the book. It’s THIN, you guys can read it fairly quickly :) I am 56 yrs old. Back in MY YOUNG DAYS, I never read the LOR trilogy OR HOBBIT because the ‘druggies’ were into them back in those days and I was NOT a ‘druggie’ :) Since I MET the books again..I LOVE THEM :) AND… Peter is doing a FANTASTIC job with the base material :) I am HAPPY :)

    • I agree on every point but that Bilbo has the Arkenstone. Bilbo does not recieve the Arkenstone until he renters the cavern with the dwarves. In my opinion, he will get it when they all renter Erabor to fortify it against the dragon’s return. Bit he very well may have it, nobody knows.

  19. Remember, folks…Thorin is buried with the Arkenstone…..Need I say more?

  20. The most sad I will feel when they will kill the dragon Smaug. This isso beautiful creature, I love Him with all ofmy heart, and could not stand to see Him git killed. Myself would like very much to be able to transform from human into such an dragon and back into the human whenever I would like to. Just I would remove only vicked ones, poople that tortue weaker of themselves and steal money from poor hard working people. I feel and imagine that Smaug could be also very good beneficial charcater in some other movie. Well Ilove him almost the most of all Tolkien characters- only one I love as much as cute beutiful suoer sexi dragon Smaug is Of course Gandalf.

    • Sorry for mistakes in my previous post, as I was writting so passionetly about Smaug :-) List of corrections : is so *, of my*, get killed*, People*, torture*, well I love*, super*, 7 mistakes in such an short post ! Upps :(

  21. I think Bilbo has the Arkenstone, having grabbed it after he goes invisible just before Smaug blasts the area with fire. I think he decides not to give it to Thorin because of what Smaug said regarding the Arkenstone causing madness, first in Thror, then Thrain, and if he gets it, Thorin. Remember that the first time he runs into Thorin in Erebor, Thorin acts very suspicious and actually threatens Bilbo with his sword, only stopping at the approach of Smaug. To Bilbo, this might be confirmation that Thorin is on the edge, vulnerable to the impact of seeing this incredible treasure hoard and that the Arkenstone would tip him into madness.

    It’s also interesting to remember that Bilbo has not told Gandalf or the dwarfs that he has found the ring, either. Why not? Is it the ring’s influence, to keep the ring moving back toward Sauron? Is it greed? Bilbo has not shown himself to be venal so far in the movies, but the book was a bit different. I don’t think he has enough information at this point to be planning to use it as a bargaining chip to ensure Thorin honors his agreements to share the treasure with Laketown and the woodland realm, as he does in the book. That will come during the lead up to the Battle of Five Armies, I think. I think after his creepy encounter with Thorin, Bilbo has decided to postpone giving it to Thorin until he sees what Thorin’s behavior is like. I think he is aware that the ring is causing his own behavior to change, as shown just after he goes berserk on the white spider when he drops the ring in Mirkwood. He sits down hard after the adrenalin rush and stares at the ring, then covers his mouth in horror as he realizes he’s headed the way of Gollum. This has probably made him alert to what’s happening to Thorin, and he clearly cares for Thorin. He won’t want Thorin corrupted or mad, so he decides to hold off.

    As for Tauriel, won’t it be amazing drama to have her fighting back to back with Kili, defending Fili and a wounded Thorin, even should they not survive the attempt? To die in each other’s arms?

    I simply cannot wait to see how Peter Jackson and his team put this all together. Honor is so important to Thorin, even if he dies, as in the book, as long as he has kept or regained his honor, and brought his people home, will it not be enough?

  22. hobbit_exp3rt says:

    Oh Bilbo definitely gets the Arkenstone. If I remember the book correctly, he smuggled it out of Erebor with Frodo’s help. Frodo and Sam are then flown by Gwaihir and the other Great Eagles to the Desert Colossus where they meet the great thief Ganondorf. He breaks the Arkenstone into eight shards which he hides scattered across Middle Earth in dungeons filled with monsters. Frodo and Sam then meet up with Thorin who gives Frodo the mithril coat he wears in Lord of the rings. I can’t wait to see Peter Jackson’s take on the desert scene, should be interesting! Cheers!

  23. Avery Elizabeth says:

    When Smaug is about to breath fire on Bilbo and is talking to bilbo about the arkenstone corrupting thorin that’s when he takes it. He puts the ring on and then there is one second before smaug breathes fire at him and that’s when he grabs it. It was at his feet and then he puts the ring on grabs the stone and is gone

  24. At last, sooneme comes up with the “right” answer!

  25. Tauriel dies i am sure i dont Think fili and kile dies Ove have søen the trailer and it is thranduil who kills tauriel

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